[IRPCoalition] [governance] RE: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations

Fri Oct 24 17:52:04 EEST 2014

Why isn't a multi stakeholder process any less broad or inclusive than say 
a multi lateral government only model, or a Parliamentary model in which a 
few elected representatives (whom you may not even have voted for), or a 
bureaucrat employed by the government elected by a country, determines 
policy that affects you?

True participatory democracy, going by the letter of that wiki definition, 
appears to be found in the cantons of Switzerland I guess, or on a smaller 
scale, in a local club where every member has a voice and a stake on where 
to hold their annual event, for example.

On 24 October 2014 10:33:45 am "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, I don’t think so, Gene.
>
>
>
> Siva has made a very clear and simple statement here in the context of most 
> of those in CS currently active in the IG space on an issue of quite 
> central importance going forward.
>
>
>
> I would have thought that advocates of the MSist model would be only too 
> delighted to make a public declaration of opposition on this matter, or by 
> their silence indicate consent.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: Gene Kimmelman [mailto:genekimmelman at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 7:21 AM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: Sivasubramanian M; forum at justnetcoalition.org; Avri Doria; IGC; 
> bestbits at lists.bestbits.net> IRP
> Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on 
> period for ITU Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> I'm sorry Michael, but I think silence -- at least on my part -- indicates 
> that many of us just don't have the time to engage right now on the merits 
> of this; I'm just too busy and think this may be something better to 
> discuss in person at some future meeting.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:59 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps we can assume here that silence is consent.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 6:51 AM
> To: 'Sivasubramanian M'
> Cc: 'Avri Doria'; 'Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net'; 
> governance at lists.igcaucus.org; IRP; forum at justnetcoalition.org
> Subject: RE: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU 
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Thanks for this Sivasubramanian…
>
>
>
> Can I/we take this i.e. that MSism (governance by self-appointed elites) is 
> the “next evolutionary stage of democracy” is a generally agreed upon 
> position among the proponents of MSism?
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> From: Sivasubramanian M [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 6:12 AM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: Avri Doria; Bits bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU 
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
> Dear Michael Gurstein,
>
>
>
> The definitions are reconciled when the multistakeholder model is viewed as 
> the next phase of evolution of Democracy, and in this phase, it is in its 
> initial stages of evolution with some aspects being defined.
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
>
> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>
> +1 (213) 300 8293 <tel:%2B1%20%28213%29%20300%208293>  Oct 11-19 2014
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 12:57 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You can of course a la the Lewis Carroll’s the Queen of Hearts define 
> anything you like as whatever you like but I’m very curious how your 
> reconcile the current practice of MSism with this definition of 
> Participatory Democracy (from Wikipedia
>
>
>
> Participatory democracy is a process emphasizing the broad participation 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_%28decision_making%29>  of 
> constituents in the direction and operation of political systems. 
> Etymological roots of democracy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy>  
> (Greek demos <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/demos>  and kratos 
> <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82> ) 
> imply that the people are in power and thus that all democracies are 
> participatory. …
>
> Participatory democracy strives to create opportunities for all members of 
> a population to make meaningful contributions to decision-making, and seeks 
> to broaden the range of people who have access to such opportunities.
>
> It seems to me that decision making a la MSism by self-appointed elites 
> (corporates, their governmental allies and whomever else they choose to 
> participate) hardly qualifies as “creat(ing) opportunities for all members 
> of a population to make meaningful contributions to decision-making”.
>
> But maybe I’m missing something.
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
> From: bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net 
> [mailto:bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:34 PM
> To: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU 
> Plenipot joint recommendations
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23-Oct-14 08:20, michael gurstein wrote:
>
>  If you take a look at my blog both the current post and several of the 
>  earlier ones you will see my argument that MSism is being presented as a 
>  form of global governance in competition with democratic governance.
>
>
>
> I haven't read your blog.  But I always define multistakeholderism (m17m) 
> as a form of participatory democracy that builds on the representative 
> democracy that some few nations have put into effect as well as the 
> bottom-up organic coming together of stakeholders, who sometime aggregate 
> into stakeholder groups, on a particular theme.  I define it as a form of 
> democracy somewhere between basic representative democracy and full direct 
> democracy.
>
> I think many other accept some form of the m17m is a form of participatory 
> democracy definition.  So the frames of reference are really quite different.
>
> avri
>
>
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