[IRPCoalition] [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITUPlenipot joint recommendations

[Richard Hill]

I agree with that.  And I'd like to add that Norbert and I have drafted something that might lead to further discussions along those lines, see:

  http://www.apig.ch/best_practices.pdf 


Best,
Richard
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Anriette Esterhuysen [mailto:anriette at apc.org]
  Sent: jeudi, 23. octobre 2014 12:42
  To: rhill at hill-a.ch; michael gurstein; 'Milton L Mueller'
  Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; 'IRP'; governance at lists.igcaucus.org; forum at justnetcoalition.org
  Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITUPlenipot joint recommendations


  Surely we need both multi stakeholder and intergovernmental processes? They are not mutually exclusive in my view and increasing transparency,  inclusion and accountability is needed for both. 


  Anriette






  Sent from Samsung Mobile



  -------- Original message --------
  From: Richard Hill 
  Date:23/10/2014 11:37 (GMT+02:00) 
  To: michael gurstein ,'Milton L Mueller' 
  Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net,'IRP' ,governance at lists.igcaucus.org,forum at justnetcoalition.org 
  Subject: Re: [IRPCoalition] [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITUPlenipot joint recommendations 


  Milton says:

  "I think private sector-based MS institutions are doing a better job of that
  than anything that will come out of the UN and its clientelist co-optation
  of civil society and development groups. And some of these institutions work
  better and preserve the freedom and autonomy of communications better
  precisely because they are _not_ democratic in the old sense of pure
  majority rule."

  In contrast, I think that it might be worth trying the good old
  intergovernmental system, despite its defects, given that the "private
  sector-based MS institutions" have failed to solve the urgent issues
  identified by the Working Group on Internet Governance back in 2004: the
  asymmetric role of the US government, the relatively high cost of Internet
  connectivity in developing countries, and the lack of security.  Sorry to be
  repetitive, but please see:

    http://www.apig.ch/WSIS%20APIG%20statement.doc

  and

    http://newsclick.in/international/review-schiller-dan-2014-digital-depress
  ion-information-technology-and-economic-crisis

  Further, "majority rule" is an element of democracy, but it is not the only
  element.  On the contrary, respect for human rights is a fundamental
  element, and it is that element, together with the rule of law (which
  includes due process), that protects minorities from undue oppression by
  majorities.

  Until we create a full fledged "Internet nation", we are stuck with the
  nations that we have, and we should use their good features while striving
  to correct their bad features.

  Calling for an abrogation of state involvement in the absence of
  alternatives that ensure democracy, and social and economic justice, is not
  something that I can support.

  Best,
  Richard

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Forum [mailto:forum-bounces at justnetcoalition.org]On Behalf Of michael
  gurstein
  Sent: mercredi, 22. octobre 2014 22:35
  To: 'Milton L Mueller'
  Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net; 'IRP'; governance at lists.igcaucus.org;
  forum at justnetcoalition.org
  Subject: Re: [JNC - Forum] Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for
  ITUPlenipot joint recommendations


  Actually Milton, the term is "We the Peoples". recognizing the diversity and
  multiplicity of the peoples of the world and presumably their various forms
  of governance and aspirations towards efficacy and empowerment including
  through their representative governance structures most of which at least
  nominally have presented themselves as "democracies".

  True that many states haven't lived up to those early aspirations, (some of
  us even remember when the US could, with a straight face present itself as a
  fully functioning model democracy) but this is no reason to deny the
  legitimacy of those aspirations and instead out of what--cynicism, fatigue,
  self-interest, racism, elitism-whatever--opt for governance through
  corporate autocracy errr. a multi-stakeholderism dominated by Western,
  technocratic, primarily male, overwhelmingly white elites.

  But at least I give you credit for being clear and straightforward in opting
  for this form of governance by "private sector-based MS institutions", would
  that others in CS were as forthright in admitting where their loyalties
  lie..

  M

  From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:04 PM
  To: 'michael gurstein'
  Cc: 'bestbits at lists.bestbits.net'; 'IRP'; 'governance at lists.igcaucus.org'
  Subject: RE: Time-sensitive: 24 hour sign on period for ITU Plenipot joint
  recommendations

  The UN has never been about "we the people." It has always been about "we
  the states." With nearly half the states in it being nondemocratic, and
  international law treating any and all states as sovereign individuals with
  equal rights, "democracy" in the UN system means one government, one vote.

  Not 'democratic' in the good sense at all. We can agree on this, however:

  we should find alternative and effective ways of manifesting [snip]
  democratic impulses in this new era and with new mechanisms and processes.

  But personally I think private sector-based MS institutions are doing a
  better job of that than anything that will come out of the UN and its
  clientelist co-optation of civil society and development groups. And some of
  these institutions work better and preserve the freedom and autonomy of
  communications better precisely because they are _not_ democratic in the old
  sense of pure majority rule.

  Milton L. Mueller
  Laura J. and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
  Syracuse University School of Information Studies
  http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/mueller/Home.html

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