[IRP] Fwd: [Expression] Googleblog: A new approach to China

Don Cameron donc
Tue Mar 23 22:47:50 EET 2010

Google is a commercial business with commercial interests. The Chinese
situation does not play into Google's profit projections. Isn't this
obvious?. This is not a criticism; simply acknowledgement of the nature of
the entity. Google is a for-profit business first and foremost. Other
businesses have similar issues in different parts of the world.

(now to speak to that person in the street pointing a Google street view
camera at my windows and check my Google Analytics blocks are still


-----Original Message-----
From: irp-bounces at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org
[mailto:irp-bounces at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org] On Behalf Of
Fouad Bajwa
Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2010 9:38 PM
To: Max Senges
Cc: expression; irp
Subject: Re: [IRP] Fwd: [Expression] Googleblog: A new approach to China

I have noted something that I would like to point out.

Why hasn't been Google in the context of other countries and before
the incident of China ever released information on censorship it was
forced to do in various countries of the world by the governments of
those countries? Why is it that google has started crying once over
with holding information from the Chinese citizens enforced by their
govt? It could have released this information from its blog, it could
have done so through other popular websites. It could have done so
through its seminars/conferences/meetings. Why is it crying now. What
is Google hiding from us in its business activities in other
countries. How does google itself be accountable before telling
citizens to be accountable of their governments for its own business

Lets play this story on both sides and not just one sided. I want to
learn what google censors in Pakistan? Can google provide me that
feedback? Google doesn't even have an office in Pakistan but it still
provides most of its services in Pakistan. Google only revokes the
right to access its Google Check Out facility here in Pakistan that
PayPal does too but both companies offer payment services in China,
India and Dubai. Anyways, I would still like to search all the souls
Google is hiding in the name of partnered censorship in Pakistan?

I see Google playing both positively and negatively with its current
situation in China. First making aware the Chinese people about
censorship Google too implemented for years after gaining extreme
financial benefits from the Chinese market that it was being forced to
censor and still benefit from China and secondly finding means to
somehow have the people of China pressurize their govt to reduce only
censorship at the cost of people's lives and allow it to fully control
the online market dynamics if it wins the people over.

Any thoughts on this?

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:10 AM, Max Senges <maxsenges at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi FoE & IRP peers
> I certainly agree with Ben. ?Rebecca wrote in a?blogpost earlier today:
> "I'm also hearing from many people that the "Google China incident" - as
> many Chinese call it - has greatly heightened awareness among normally
> apolitical Chinese Internet users about the extent of Internet censorship
> their country. It has sparked a lot of debate and soul searching about the
> extent to which their government is causing them to be isolated from the
> rest of the world."
> I thing a debate about how to support this soul searching could be quite
> productive.
> Best
> Max
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ben Wagner <b at nwagner.org>
> Date: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 8:49 PM
> Subject: [Expression] Googleblog: A new approach to China
> To: Expression IPjustice <expression at ipjustice.org>
> This looks like it could be quite interesting. It remains to be see how
> pans out in the wider scheme of things, but it certainly is an interesting
> development.
> "[...]?earlier today we stopped censoring our search services?Google
> Google News, and Google Images?on Google.cn. Users visiting Google.cn are
> now being redirected to Google.com.hk, where we are offering uncensored
> search in simplified Chinese, specifically designed for users in mainland
> China and delivered via our servers in Hong Kong. Users in Hong Kong will
> continue to receive their existing uncensored, traditional Chinese
> also from Google.com.hk. Due to the increased load on our Hong Kong
> and the complicated nature of these changes, users may see some slowdown
> service or find some products temporarily inaccessible as we switch
> everything over.
> Figuring out how to make good on our promise to stop censoring search on
> Google.cn has been hard. We want as many people in the world as possible
> have access to our services, including users in mainland China, yet the
> Chinese government has been crystal clear throughout our discussions that
> self-censorship is a non-negotiable legal requirement. We believe this new
> approach of providing uncensored search in simplified Chinese from
> Google.com.hk is a sensible solution to the challenges we've faced?it's
> entirely legal and will meaningfully increase access to information for
> people in China. We very much hope that the Chinese government respects
> decision, though we are well aware that it could at any time block access
> our services. We will therefore be carefully monitoring access issues, and
> have created this new web page, which we will update regularly each day,
> that everyone can see which Google services are available in China.
> In terms of Google's wider business operations, we intend to continue R&D
> work in China and also to maintain a sales presence there, though the size
> of the sales team will obviously be partially dependent on the ability of
> mainland Chinese users to access Google.com.hk. Finally, we would like to
> make clear that all these decisions have been driven and implemented by
> executives in the United States, and that none of our employees in China
> can, or should, be held responsible for them. Despite all the uncertainty
> and difficulties they have faced since we made our announcement in
> they have continued to focus on serving our Chinese users and customers.
> are immensely proud of them."
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-approach-to-china-update.html
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Fouad Bajwa
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