[IRP] FW: Charter of Human Rights and Principles for the Internet
Benedek, Wolfgang wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at
wolfgang.benedek
Tue Aug 31 17:43:59 EEST 2010
Dear Anja,
thank You very much for Your efforts.
The problem is to put the principle in human rights language. You state rather environmental principles.
I have already included it as a responsibility in the Charter, let's see what we can do more.
Anyway, thank You again.
Best regards
Wolfgang
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: irp-bounces at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org [mailto:irp-bounces at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org] Im Auftrag von Anja Kovacs
Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. August 2010 16:21
An: irp at lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org
Betreff: Re: [IRP] FW: Charter of Human Rights and Principles for the Internet
Dear all,
I had promised to attempt to provide some wording on the problem of
e-waste, for the charter (to be added to the para on sustainable
development). Here is an initial attempt:
"The burden of e-waste should first and foremost be carried by the
producer. E-waste should not be exported to developing countries that
do not have the capacity to deal with it in a manner that safeguards the
health of workers and the environment. Developing and developed
countries should work together to find sustainable solutions to e-waste
problems".
Best,
Anja
On Thursday 19 August 2010 05:37 AM, Henrik Almstr?m wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> Really interesting comments below - and good work from the creators!
>
> Sorry for late comments from my side but here are some on the comments
> in the thread and some new ones. I will try to attend the meeting
> tomorrow, just hoping that computer and connection will work fine.
>
> people/citizens/stakeholders/users:
> I actually don't have a principle problems that businesses enjoy human
> rights - especially the right of being treated as equal before the law.
> I'm not an expert in HR law but I don't think that implies that humans
> and companies are treated as equals but instead that actors with the
> same legal status are treated equal. What are the effects of changing it
> to people? Does it mean that a company (or even a CSO/NGO) do not enjoy
> the rights of the charter at all?
>
> Relating to the above; is there a reason that there is no list of
> definitions?
> There are a number of words and concepts that could be defined to avoid
> misunderstandings. However I realise that such a list could cause lot's
> of discussions and maybe delays in the process. And as was mentioned by
> Olivier regarding defamation it can sometimes be good not to define. The
> latter could however be solved through a definition linking directly to
> the CCPR where it is an open concept as well.
>
> 2) c. states that "everyone, in particular governments and business
> should undertake". I have two comments on this: 1- why is it givernment
> and business in particular only here and not on several more places such
> as net neutrality or sustainability? 2- As mentioned above I don't have
> a problem to give companies rights - but to give them obligations is
> more problematic. Of course depending on the nature of the charter (and
> correct me if i'm wrong) - but if it is supposed to be signed by states
> like the UDHR or the ICCPR everyone can have rights but only the signing
> states can have obligations. This means in this case the obligation
> should be on the state to create a legal environment where business is
> forced undertake the steps towards inclusion. On the other hand if the
> charter is supposed to be a transcription of a general set of norms it
> could include obligations for anyone.
>
> 2) e. "the principle of inclusive design" is a concept that could be
> defined to easier communicate the content of the section.
>
> 6)d. 7)b. and 9)d. could be linked together. I agree with the current
> positions but to 6)d. "such restrictions should include limitations as
> decribed in section 7)b. and 9)d. of this Charter."could be added. To
> 7)b. "Such prohibition shall always comply with section 6)d. of this
> Charter" could be added. And to 9)d. "Such protection shall always
> comply with section 6)d. of this Charter" could be added.
>
> 9)f. As behavioural tracking is part of the business model of just about
> any business involving internet advertising (like Gmail Facebook etc) i
> think a total prohibition is problematic. What would you think of the
> following addition? "Any agreement regarding access to online services
> that includes acceptance of such surveillance shall clearly state the
> nature of the surveillance"
>
> 10)c. The last sentence: Is it ok if you just are notified afterwards if
> data is transferred to a third party? Or is this just in the case of
> accidental transfer? if not accidental transfer I believe (preferrably
> active consent) should be required (which i think is the case in many
> data privacy laws)
>
> 11) last part.I'm not sure about the meaning of "Open Educational
> Resources" but as I am reading this it implies that it should not be
> allowed to commercialise learning materials in a traditional copyright
> way. I'm definitely pro Open source, FOSS, CC etc. but i don't
> necessarily think that it should be totally prohibited the selling and
> copyrighting of a newly developed pedagogic mathematics book. I think
> such a prohibition could affect the developments of new pedagogics
> badly.
>
> I think what is mentioned in section 12)b about the fair use exceptions
> is the way to cover this issue rather than prohibiting the use of
> copyright in a certain way. That would also target states rather than
> private actors which i think is an easier way to go.
>
> 12)c. I know that some (maybe all) of you might not agree with me but I
> think there's a lot of basic research that could never benefit the
> society of it was not commercialised through copyright or patenting in
> an early stage because of the high costs of testing and developing
> before reaching market. I actually believe that the state very well
> could play the role of financing certain basic research which if
> commercialized could benefit the society. This would not be possible at
> all with the current phrasing without exceptions.
>
> 14) b.How about adding "and shall comply with section 10) of this
> Charter" in the end?
>
> See you tomorrow!
> /Henrik Almstrom
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 15:51 +0200, Max Senges wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>> I hurried and returned from the pamir mountains early in order to join
>> our call tomorrow :-)
>>
>>
>> A big thanks to Wolfgang and the other experts for developing the
>> latest version of the charter.
>> I have added some first personal comments and some language to the
>> google doc and am in the process to consult with some colleagues.
>>
>>
>> Section 1
>> https://docs1.google.com/document/edit?id=10dSNV0OMkFEZ3KrVDWCXou1an6gJP6uqJQeZPYlHCAo&hl=en&authkey=CIWByMwN#
>>
>>
>> Section 2
>> https://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?key=tGANSnLsqQuRjiuEGsGUJkg&hl=en#gid=0 (please hover over the cells with an orange triangle)
>>
>>
>> Looking forward to the call tomorrow.
>>
>>
>> Max
>>
>> "The future is not what it used to be"
>> Karl Valentin
>> ...........................................................................
>>
>> Max Senges
>> Berlin
>>
>> www.maxsenges.com
>>
>> Mobile: 01622122755
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 12:01 PM, M I Franklin <cos02mf at gold.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>> Dear All
>>
>> Unfortunately I'm unable to attend tomorrow's meeting due to
>> another engagement though I might manage to be there for the
>> last part.
>>
>> Have read the latest version of the charter with great
>> interest. Congratulations to Wolfgang. Meryem, and Rikke for
>> all their work and expertise in producing this working
>> document.
>>
>> I have some brief comments/queries for the discussion
>> tomorrow based on the current version and points raised by
>> others in terms of language and wording.
>>
>> 1) the Title; The Charter, and its sister-documents (e.g. APC
>> Charter, Bill of Rights) have run with several sorts of word
>> combinations in their titles; Internet Rights; Internet Rights
>> and Principles; Human Rights and Principles for the Internet.
>>
>> I'm not a legal expert but wording, and word-order does matter
>> in this setting so I'm interested to hear more about the
>> current title-wording in view of tactical issues around 'human
>> rights' being a red flag for certain stakeholders. ;
>>
>> 2) I concur with the need to talk about 'digital inclusion'
>> vs. 'digital divide'. However, the latter does exist so need
>> this be an either/or choice?
>>
>> 3) I defer to the expertise of Michael G., Ben W., Wolfgang
>> and others about FoE and privacy wording.
>>
>> 4) Thinking ahead in terms of how terms of
>> reference/technologies change (e.g. inroads being made by
>> mobile internet communications) I was wondering what the
>> shelf-life was of the term 'Internet'; would it be possible to
>> delineate this term a bit more in the preamble?
>>
>> 5) re. the discussion about 'people' vs. 'citizens' vs.
>> 'users'; The first is the most flexible as it encompasses
>> communities and individuals; those who can/want to access and
>> use the internet as well as those who don't . Btw, 'netizens'
>> is a term that is also in use in some quarters.
>>
>> 6) On ownership; I concur with Wolfgang's point; the Charter
>> needs to be launched and made available to a wide range of
>> parties if it is to gain any so a bottom-up approach is all
>> the better.
>>
>> Looking forward to reading the minutes for tomorrow; Is there
>> any chance of recording this meeting - does HiDef Conferencing
>> allow for this?
>>
>> All the best
>> MF
>>
>>
>>
>> --On Tuesday, August 17, 2010 17:21 +0200 Anriette Esterhuysen
>> <anriette at apc.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Lisa and others
>>
>> I have been meaning to ask why the language 'Digital
>> divide' was
>> introduced. We never used it in the APC IR Charter.
>>
>> As Michael points out, the term digital inclusion has
>> been preferred by
>> most organisations working in developing countries for
>> the last 10
>> years.
>>
>> Michael's language is perhaps a bit long.. but I think
>> it contains
>> important points so forms a good basis.
>>
>> The challenge with the term digital inclusion is that
>> it relates to so
>> many different rights but accessibility and
>> affordability are
>> fundamental
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Anriette
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 15:53 +0100, Lisa Horner wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>>
>>
>> Please see salient comments below from Michael
>> concerning digital
>> inclusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking forward to conference call to discuss
>> all comments this
>> Thursday 19th at 15.00 UK/16.00 CET. Please
>> could you let me know if
>> you are planning to join? Please also try to
>> submit all comments in
>> writing by the end of tomorrow (Wednesday) so
>> that we can collate them
>> and discuss them systematically during the
>> call.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Michael Gurstein
>> [mailto:gurstein at gmail.com]
>> Sent: 15 August 2010 15:20
>> To: Lisa Horner
>> Subject: RE: [IRP] Charter of Human Rights and
>> Principles for the
>> Internet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>>
>> Below I suggest some (unfortunately
>> still
>> awkward) alternative language under the
>> "Overcoming the
>> Digital Divide" section I.2.c as below
>> (including changing the
>> heading) . The term Digital Inclusion
>> is now coming into
>> more general use than Digital Divide
>> based in part on a
>> recognition that there will always (in
>> a fractal world) be
>> "divides" while broad based "inclusion"
>> while difficult is
>> achievable. The notion of the "digital
>> divide" also
>> (inappropriately) tends to disempower
>> and imply dependency on
>> the part of those on the "wrong" side
>> or the "divide".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ensuring Digital Inclusion
>>
>>
>>
>> An Internet based society and economy
>> requires that all have
>> an equal opportunity for active and
>> effective participation in
>> and through the Internet. To this end
>> active support should
>> be available for self-managed and other
>> community
>> based facilities and services to
>> ensure universal digital
>> inclusion . Digital inclusion requires
>> the opportunity for
>> access to, and effective use of the
>> range of digital media,
>> communication platforms and devices for
>> information management
>> and processing.
>>
>>
>>
>> To ensure the opportunity for universal
>> digital access and
>> use, among the measures that must be
>> put in place are public
>> internet access points located (with
>> easy physical and
>> disability oriented design access ) in
>> among other
>> locations, telecentres, libraries,
>> community centers, clinics
>> or schools. This must be accompanied
>> by support for the
>> effective use of this access as well
>> as access obtained via
>> mobile media. This would be provided
>> through appropriate training, social
>> and organizational
>> mediation and facilitation, and design
>> and governance
>> regimes including support for the use
>> of the range of Internet
>> enabled services such as e-government,
>> e-education, e-health
>> and facilitation and support for
>> locally based initiatives and
>> participation in content creation,
>> e-governance, service
>> design and delivery and other.
>>
>>
>>
>> (Note that I've included here a brief
>> mention of mobile
>> Internet access... I notice that the
>> overall document seems
>> rather to ignore mobile Internet which
>> is emerging as the
>> dominant Internet access means in many
>> parts of the world.
>> I'm not exactly sure how that impacts
>> on other parts of this
>> document but as the document proceeds
>> it should be done in
>> full awareness of the potential of this
>> as an issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best to all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Gurstein, Ph.D.
>> Director: Centre for Community
>> Informatics Research,
>> Development and Training
>> Vancouver, CANADA
>> http://www.communityinformatics.net
>> CA tel. +1-604-602-0624
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>> --
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> anriette esterhuysen -
>> ?executive director
>> ass??????????????????????????????????
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>> ????????????????????????????????
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>> ????????????????????
>>
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--
Dr. Anja Kovacs
Centre for Internet and Society
No. 194, 2nd 'C' Cross
Domlur 2nd Stage
Bangalore 560071, India
T: +91-(0)80-25350955 | F: +91-(0)80-41148130
M: +91-9611747212 | W: www.cis-india.org
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